Story vs. Volume: The Creative Conflict Killing Your Ads

[00:00:00] Taylor Holiday: Hey Taylor, you're pushing all this volume, volume, volume.

But then you're also saying create deep, meaningful moments that feels like maybe these things are at odds with each other in some way. So I feel felt like maybe that was a good topic to describe. What I call the two rhythms of the marketing department and the experience that I have in terms of what it looks like to work with the best brands and the different roles we play versus they play, versus great leaders play in that system.

[00:00:22] Richard Gaffin: Hey folks. Welcome to the Ecommerce Playbook Podcast. I'm your host, Richard Gaffin, director of Digital Product Strategy here at Common Thread Collective. And I'm joined as I always am by Taylor Holiday, our CEO here at Common Thread. Taylor, I would first point out you still have your playoff stash on your face, and I think I, I, I mean, maybe I'll let you announce it.

What happened with the Costa Mesa Yankees over the last couple weeks?

[00:00:46] Taylor Holiday: so that's

[00:00:47] Richard Gaffin: What?

[00:00:47] Taylor Holiday: But the winning continues. One of our players won the District Home Run Derby this

[00:00:53] Richard Gaffin: Oh wow.

[00:00:54] Taylor Holiday: And we'll now have a chance to go on to Seattle up in your neck of the woods

[00:00:58] Richard Gaffin: Oh wow.

[00:01:00] Taylor Holiday: for a chance to go to the Williamsport Little League World Series Home Run Derby.

And it was, it was a great, great time. So the mustache magic

[00:01:08] Richard Gaffin: That's right. Yeah. Well, if the mustache doesn't go with him to Seattle, like who knows what's gonna happen, I guess, but

[00:01:12] Taylor Holiday: it's going,

[00:01:13] Richard Gaffin: Oh, you're going?

[00:01:14] Taylor Holiday: I,

[00:01:14] Richard Gaffin: Oh, hell yeah.

[00:01:15] Taylor Holiday: get on the plane and bring it with me.

[00:01:17] Richard Gaffin: There you go. Awesome. Alright, cool. Well, let's talk about I, I honestly can't find a great segue from home run derby into what we're talking about today.

I usually do, but

[00:01:25] Taylor Holiday: I actually have one because I

[00:01:26] Richard Gaffin: Okay, let's hear it.

[00:01:28] Taylor Holiday: as a setup for my talk at Final Loop because I

[00:01:30] Richard Gaffin: no. Why?

[00:01:31] Taylor Holiday: literally, I felt public, like internalized pressure to explain why I had a mustache. 'cause I feel so ridiculous being this way in public. I

[00:01:40] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:40] Taylor Holiday: to just think, this is how I am.

That's how I feel about it. Even we went to dinner in Mickey's. Girlfriends with Mickey who helps me with a lot of social content. Part of our marketing team here, his girlfriend's a chef at the Lauren hotel. And we had a wonderful dinner there on Wednesday night and afterwards she said to Mickey, I didn't know Taylor was so country.

[00:02:03] Richard Gaffin: Oh, that's hilarious.

[00:02:04] Taylor Holiday: my uh, my mustache and I was wearing, I have this hat from somebody on Twitter sent it to me. That's the Lone Star Trash Co. And so I was very, I was very Texas out and I had

[00:02:13] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:02:14] Taylor Holiday: my Tecovas, so I was,

[00:02:15] Richard Gaffin: yeah, of course.

[00:02:16] Taylor Holiday: character.

[00:02:17] Richard Gaffin: Oh, there you go. I don't know. I have a theory that

[00:02:19] Taylor Holiday: go

[00:02:19] Richard Gaffin: as, as I get older, I'm just gonna become more country as well, and it feels like it's sort of happening with most of my peer group is like you just sort of start, I don't know, lobbing with him.

[00:02:27] Taylor Holiday: game, you

[00:02:28] Richard Gaffin: Yeah, it's true.

[00:02:29] Taylor Holiday: energy and night, and so you start to move out to your porch and just sit there and fade away into the distance as you

[00:02:35] Richard Gaffin: Oh my God.

[00:02:36] Taylor Holiday: it's natural.

[00:02:37] Richard Gaffin: Absolutely. I just moved to a place with a balcony and it's, the only thing I can think about is when's the next time I can go sit on my balcony and just kind of stare at, but there you go. Alright, well let's then let's talk about that talk that you've alluded to here where you had to explain your mustache, you had to explain a couple of other things as well.

And at that talk as I understand it, you gave sort of a version of the DTC evolution presentation. That we've discussed on this podcast and, and other pieces of content before, but a question kind of came out of that, that I think sets up an interesting conversation. So why don't you kind of set that up for us and, and we can lead into that.

[00:03:07] Taylor Holiday: Yeah, so Tanner Lamb, who's the CFO of Cozy Earth, one of our customers and a good friend came up to me after the speech and he asked a really fair question. And if you haven't watched it, if you go look on our YouTube channel and you search D two C Evolution, you'll see this talk. it's sort of a walkthrough of these different eras of D two C and a focus on what I think the next evolution is and how brands are evolving to build impactful cash flowing businesses.

And. One of the points that I make is that it happens through story, not iteration. There's literally a section called Story Not Iteration, and I talk about how Born Primitive and Bear have built these like really meaningful substantive marketing moments that have driven disproportionate effect to the ad account. afterwards, Tanner came up to me and said, Hey, I feel like this is a, your message was a little bit at odds of our experience of working with CTC, where so much of what we feel like the conversation centers around is volume of creative. and so can you help to square those two ideas for me? I, I thought that this was a really fair question and something that I figured maybe more people are sort of like, Hey Taylor, you're pushing all this volume, volume, volume.

But then you're also saying create deep, meaningful moments that feels like maybe these things are at odds with each other in some way. So I feel felt like maybe that was a good topic to describe. What I call the two rhythms of the marketing department and the experience that I have in terms of what it looks like to work with the best brands and the different roles we play versus they play, versus great leaders play in that system.

[00:04:33] Richard Gaffin: Right. Yeah. So let's talk about that because I think this has been an ongoing conversation over like the five, or my God, seven years I've been here now of this sort of need, need to balance the creative, the deep, meaningful part, the story I. With the volume requirement of the platform. And oftentimes when you start focusing on, Hey, let's tell a deep, meaningful story, all of a sudden the creative department gets really excited about that.

Everybody starts developing deep, meaningful stories, and then nobody produces ads. And I think what we wanna figure out here, or what I'm interested to hear from you then is what is the balance? When do you focus on one? When do you focus on the other? What are the kind of the context in which both, or one you need to focus on one or the other.

[00:05:13] Taylor Holiday: Yeah, so us to. Have a visual in our head as we talk about this. So if we go back to the idea of four peaks theory, right? And maybe Corey, with your fancy editing skills, you can pull up sort of the graphic that we'll use a lot to illustrate this. Maybe even the original drawing video. There's a screenshot here and what you see is imagine a line that looks sort of like an EKG. Which there are peaks and troughs, right? There are peaks, valleys, peaks, valleys, peaks, valleys. So in other words, it's not perpetual peaking. It's not every day tell an incredible story and build this amazing moment that is unsustainable. And it's unsustainable because the peaks take a. Cultivation and work that is a different pace and rhythm of the day-to-day of media buying. They are long-term planning activities. They work in cycles where you go and they are often centered around a product development cycle, which goes from ideation to testing, to refinement to manufacturing production. They're long cycles, and so what I have experienced is that oftentimes. Marketing departments are sort of divine designed to only be able to produce one cadence, is that there's some calendar and the work is like one cycle all the time.

And it's like whether it's every Friday we make new ads or maybe that's the cycle or something else, I. What I really believe and what I think what we help to enable for brands is that there should be two rhythms inside of a marketing department done by different people on that work and behave differently. And those rhythms are one, the sort of peak moment creation. That is longer term planning, bigger ideas, model breaking moments we would call them. And then two is the evergreen always on production, that req that is required to build and drive the, the underlying growth engine of the system.

[00:07:04] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:04] Taylor Holiday: those are two different things now. What I'll say is both actually have volume as a portion of the delivery and distribution of that thing. So volume, just because there's a moment doesn't mean that it requires less, it's still, there's a consideration for what, how do we do volume within the context of the moment. But these are behavioral patterns that are different.

And a couple episodes ago, I actually, when I did the solo episode, Richard, I talked about. How I actually was praising George from Cozy Earth because he had sort of embraced that idea to say, I'm gonna go be the model breaking moment person and leader, and I'm gonna trust CTC and my alongside their internal team that are responsible for the channels to handle that day-to-day volume evergreen cycle.

And so he sort of started to bifurcate those rhythms in a way that I think begins to make sense.

[00:07:51] Richard Gaffin: Okay, so let's talk then about, you had mentioned sort of like the need for volume that comes from these marketing moments as well, or like rather a marketing moment is more about frequency and not about volume, I guess. So talk about how then those two, maybe those, what I'm saying is how did those two cadences then come to interact?

Because you create the marketing moment, let's say for a brand it's Father's Day or whatever. You spent three, four months planning that out, making sure that the story is there, seeding the product and the way it needs to be seeded for this sort of story about fathers to come out, whatever. How does then that come to sort of land on earth with all the people creating the ads, and how do you make those things work together, I guess.

[00:08:29] Taylor Holiday: That, so that's a great question. So. And I wanna point back to, there is a LinkedIn post from the CMO of Skullcandy he talks about the core asset video that they had for their A NC method launch. And what he talks about in the video is he talks about how that asset. Serves multiple purposes. And the purpose isn't just by itself to deliver value, it's to build structure for the entirety of the campaign. Okay? So the way that I think about, so we're gonna talk right now about the bigger moment rhythm. Okay? The moment rhythm. And you know, we could use a. An example of you know, the born primitive D-Day shoe drop or whatever, right? So if you think about everything that goes into planning the D-Day shoe launch, right?

There's product design. You have to get a sample, you have to, so there's the whole product, product lifecycle of production that underpins this, right? And then on top of that, there's all these marketing components of the relationship with the charities that we're funding. The mechanism for Normandy, there's assets and photos that they produce of all the veterans.

So there's all this sort of collateral development. There's a core video asset that talks that sort of think of it as the campaign hero piece. Okay. none of that has anything to do with direct response. Advertising in the ad account, right? So our job and what we wanna receive and why I use that reference to the skull candy video is the best thing you could provide to the team that's working in our rhythm is the a campaign brief that has the structured assets, here's the font, colors, logos, timing, et cetera. The underlying raw asset library, the product, the offer, this whole system. And then we're gonna take that now. we're going to go into the volume component, which is we're still going to apply medevac best practices to create as much diverse creative volume as we can that accesses the right placement.

So we're gonna have nine by 16 with sound on. We're gonna have one by one. We're gonna have static image, we're gonna have carousel, we're gonna have lots of different form factors of communicating the same story. But you've given me the building blocks to produce volume. So those, that initial work is what I think creative directors and marketing leaders are responsible for designing.

At c at Calo, we used to do these in the form, and I've shared a couple of these on Twitter before. Maybe we can service a few of them. We'd call them campaign briefs. It's like, here's the visual hi hierarchy, here's the fonts, here's the messaging, here's the products, here's the, the assets. I heard the marketing operators talk about this in a similar way, but that sort of. That document, the compilation of that is a long-term process. It might take a month or months to produce it, and you get it done ahead of time and it's handed into a system that now is going to take it in turn and is good at churning assets in this iterative fashion. but they're iterating on an underlying story that exists already and a set of raw materials that have been shot and provided ahead of time.

[00:11:19] Richard Gaffin: Yeah, so, so talk to me then about 'cause you had alluded to the, like the creative director or the CMO or whoever being the person producing these. Campaign briefs, but dig a little deeper maybe into the team structure or who the person actually like, like in practicality, who is actually producing these campaign briefs.

[00:11:38] Taylor Holiday: Yeah, so it's a great

[00:11:39] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:11:40] Taylor Holiday: so it happens in my experience in two different ways. either a, c, EO, so again, let's go to the born permit example, whose disposition as a leader is towards product and story. And they know the brand and it's encapsulated in them in many ways, right?

[00:11:54] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:55] Taylor Holiday: So you're, that's the bear example.

Bear is the only person who could dream up and execute and design the D-Day initiative. Now he's gonna partner with a set of creative leaders. This could be a creative director, this could be a designer, this could be a product leader, depending on the organization to sort of build the visual equity that surrounds the idea. But you could swap bear out for CMO or marketing leader in that case in some organizations like Skull Candy, right? You might get. To, okay. The product and partnership between Bose and Skullcandy is a function of the CEO's strategic leadership. The product design team gets involved, and then the CMO builds the story to support the product, right?

So depending on the size of the organization, these things are a little bit different. this is really where I think the key is to understand that all everything I'm talking about is an internal function. And this is where I think the best relationships exist between agency and

[00:12:47] Richard Gaffin: Hmm.

[00:12:47] Taylor Holiday: In my experience in the growth space and the internal team.

Is that that kind of work I. best suited to be done by the internal organization because it's cross-functional across a lot of different departments internally. Usually it's very intimately connected to brand knowledge and customer knowledge in a way that is very personal to who you are as a business. where we step in and where we execute incredibly well is when you can hand us that and now let us translate that into direct response execution for the sake of driving revenue on a specific day, and to

[00:13:16] Richard Gaffin: Hmm.

[00:13:16] Taylor Holiday: that into a planning process. So that's like. When I see the distinction between a growth functioning agency, service provider, and an internal marketing team, that's where those pieces come together in this really symbiotic way to produce the best outcomes.

[00:13:31] Richard Gaffin: Yeah. So actually, so then this produces a nice segue to to a tweet that we've been talking about, a little bit about potentially being sort of fodder for this episode, but I think it kind of, connects quite nicely at this specific juncture. So this is a, a tweet that you put out. When was this?

June 7th. So a couple of days ago. And there's, there's a lot in here, so it's probably worth going into more depth at some point. But 2025 meta ad strategy. Profit is the objective. Incrementality is the measurement. Creative volume is the mechanism. The metrics that matter, contribution, margin and channel, incremental marginal return, number of ads launched, cost per ad launch, and then you review some steps to get there, all of which are, are important I'm sure.

But at the bottom you have small team execute this workflow. Broader marketing team spends more time planning major moments and launches, which is interesting to me because the kind of upshot of the tweet, that conclusion that you come to is all of these things being in place gives you the opportunity to actually spend more time.

Thinking about planning these major moments. So maybe talk a little bit about your thought process there.

[00:14:27] Taylor Holiday: this is what I would love to see and and the fundamental key, what you're describing is if you were to take all of the internal FTEs at your team and ask the percentage allocation of their time versus tomorrow's work.

[00:14:41] Richard Gaffin: Hmm.

[00:14:41] Taylor Holiday: Or the next day's work or the iterative function of the core business. How much time is spent on the movement and execution of that versus the strategic thought of creating the next big thing. You want to redistribute that resource towards building that big idea. That is only my experience is that that's really hard to create externally.

[00:15:05] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:05] Taylor Holiday: like, it's not that it can't be done, but it, it, my experience is that that is an internal function and that's where we, I think as an example, partner, so well. Hey, like we understand that like black leggings you know, sports bras while the big D-Day shoe moment is going on, still have to sell. And they, there's an email that needs to go out and ads that need to be made and budget that needs to be managed. The Google Ads, words campaign needs to function, and those are all important and you wanna trust someone to execute those on a disciplined level that you can really go like.

I know today my categorical search is being handled well, but if you find yourself in the minutia of analyzing your Google AdWords account constantly as a marketing leader, what's likely true is that you have left on the table. The core responsibility that only you can handle and that there's some distrust in the system about the partner that you're working with, and it's actually gonna cause you to fail at your job too.

[00:16:02] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:03] Taylor Holiday: and so I think that's, that's really the more and more that I, that I see internal organizations. How much of your time and mind share can you operate out of tomorrow? Tru Hands, someone tomorrow hand someone the next 30 days and you go live in 60, 90, and 120. That's, I think, the best opportunity that exists.

[00:16:21] Richard Gaffin: Okay, so let's, let's dig into that a little bit more. Like, particularly like the psychology of getting to a place where you feel capable of thinking in 60 to 90 day windows. Part of this is a little personal advice because I definitely struggle with this. I think we all do. But so I mean, part of it is like maybe putting a system that's measuring the right things where you have a partner that you trust to do X, Y, and Z.

Of course that's helpful, but that. Having the right things in place, I think has never prevented a micromanager from micromanaging. So what are the, the sort of psychologic tool, what are the tools you need to put in place to get to that point?

[00:16:54] Taylor Holiday: I think even like you, you hear Ruthie Grace on the last episode. By the way, if you haven't listened to that episode with her, it's just awesome.

[00:17:01] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:01] Taylor Holiday: enjoyed listening to it, but I think for a micromanager, and I'll even put myself a little bit in this category, and I'll tell you what helps me. Is that I have built an underlying system where I'm confident that there is clarity of the expectation for each person. So the goals are set. There's a place where I can see their tracking to progress. I've designed what I call push communication that shows up to me without asking. So

[00:17:25] Richard Gaffin: Mm.

[00:17:25] Taylor Holiday: the checkpoints where I'm allowed to go and look at, look under the hood.

It's not to say that I don't ever look, but I, I receive that message on a proactive basis and I know then when I have to step in and I know the accountabilities of the leaders, of people that I trust to execute. So this is when I think about like our profit system, part of what it's intended to enable.

And I think I, this is what I liked hearing from Ruthie, is that like we're gonna give you, we're gonna make sure everybody knows the financial expectation. We're gonna give you visibility to your progress against that expectation. Every day you're gonna receive proactively what everybody's doing in that moment. So again, you're not having to seek out and wonder. I think what happens to leaders is when they become, when, when worry creeps in that we're not going where we're supposed to be going, and either I don't have visibility or I'm unclear on what someone's doing, then I feel this need to sw like, dive in and go, what's happening right now? I, I, it's fear like that's ultimately what it is, right? And so it's funny, my kids asked me the other day, we were watching, we've been watching a lot of college baseball. It's 'cause it's the super regionals right now. And I think it's like literally the best baseball. If you're a baseball fan and you don't watch this version of college baseball, it's the best there is.

And a kid was up it was the ninth inning and he looked really calm and was like, like breathing, really?

[00:18:36] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:37] Taylor Holiday: calm. And my kids asked like, how, how do you think he's so calm? And I said like, he's prepared. When you're prepared for a moment, you can be calm

[00:18:48] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:48] Taylor Holiday: know, we had a, used to have a mental strength or a mental coach at our college that used to say, like, when the hay's in the barn, you can be confident for the storm.

Like, you know, like you, you've prepared, you're, you're aware of the moment. And I think that's a lot of what it is, is that when you get into the month, you have a good plan. You know, the people are executing it. They're clear on what to do. You've received the metrics regularly that it doesn't mean there's not gonna be problems, but you're prepared.

[00:19:15] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:16] Taylor Holiday: that's a big piece of why I care so much about this connection between the financial plan and the marketing plan. Because as a leader, if you're just giving me like marketing metrics, but I know the financial data isn't where I need it to be, I'm just gonna start berating your marketing metrics like I the marketing actions, and I'm gonna bring them under question all the time. But this like intimate connection between action outcome that connects to the broader plan, I think that's the start. That's the start. And because if you think about that, what we're providing is this like regular 30 day window. We're giving you a 30 day plan all the time. That connects to a broader 12 month plan.

But really it's these cycles of 30 days where at the very least, that should give you the ability. As a marketing leader to pick up and move at least 30 days out okay, I can now begin to think about the next period or the period after that. Because CTC, there's a marketing calendar. Every email is planned, every campaign launch every day. As long as they do that and they get within a specific range, we're trying to get to, you know, this, within this target, I should be able to move forward and get out of this sequential interaction.

[00:20:17] Richard Gaffin: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think like for me, certainly just, just discovering how spending an hour or two planning, like just forcing yourself out of the kind of the day-to-day. Thing. Right? What you discover is like building that plan doesn't actually take as long as you maybe thought it did, but once it happens, everything else starts to move more quickly, right?

I mean, it's the classic thing that, and I would recommend everybody listen to my, my interview with Tara from Ruthie Grace. I thought it was fascinating and she really lays out what I think is like a super, super healthy way of communicating and a system for kind of like generating this sort of internal thing that we're talking about here.

But anyway, but the idea that like if you, you slow down to speed up. It's a cliche at this point, but it is so, so important. 

[00:21:02] Taylor Holiday: It's funny,

[00:21:02] Richard Gaffin: yeah,

[00:21:02] Taylor Holiday: actually feel like Richard, we're at this precipice for us as a marketing department of

[00:21:06] Richard Gaffin: yeah,

[00:21:06] Taylor Holiday: that again. Right?

[00:21:07] Richard Gaffin: yeah.

[00:21:08] Taylor Holiday: we're still in this cycle of, I'd say like, sometimes we can get to two to three weeks out on the podcast or we can get to,

[00:21:13] Richard Gaffin: Sure.

[00:21:14] Taylor Holiday: and our industry moves really quick.

But I feel like, so there's different places where it shows up all the time, but I agree when you. You feel? I know. I feel this like weight releases off of me when I know the next two to three weeks of things are already thought through,

[00:21:29] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:29] Taylor Holiday: can begin to think in that bigger space and that's where you can actually make substantive changes.

You can't really change the business course or trajectory. This week it's really hard to do because this week is already full. Like the way I talk

[00:21:42] Richard Gaffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:42] Taylor Holiday: it is like I have never showed up to work on a Monday and had an empty calendar.

[00:21:47] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:21:47] Taylor Holiday: it's

[00:21:47] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:21:48] Taylor Holiday: if, if you need to suddenly change course, like the problem is there's so much that has to happen today that is already obligated, that you can't really make those kinds of alterations at a big enough level.

And so I think especially for marketing leaders, and this is why I'm passionate about our role as a partner, is we wanna bring you financial clarity. We wanna help you build a great plan, want to give you confidence in the day-to-day execution, in a way that you can go break the model, that you

[00:22:11] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:22:12] Taylor Holiday: the thing that you're uniquely positioned to do.

[00:22:14] Richard Gaffin: No, I like, I, I was gonna say, I like that you're waving a screwdriver around while you're doing it. Just ready to get to work. Kind of fits the country look too, you know.

[00:22:21] Taylor Holiday: Yeah. You know, like I, there we, there's people in our space that like position themselves as like fractional CMOs and like, that's not who we are. And

[00:22:27] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:22:28] Taylor Holiday: very clear on this is that like, we are not a CMO, that's not the role we're gonna play in your organization. I. We are going to be the best friend to the CMO and CFO.

Like, we're gonna help you feel really confident that your team is gonna execute at a world class level. There's gonna be connection between your departments in a way that you can build a lot of confidence around. And then you're gonna go, come up with fricking awesome ideas that we're gonna distribute really effectively, thoughtfully with the right allocation and measurements to make sure that it drives the results you want.

[00:22:55] Richard Gaffin: Yeah. Yeah. It does strike me though. Part, part of what we do is we slot in a partner that you can trust about those daily things that you need to get out of yourself. Right. I think that's like a big, a big part of what we offer is the ability to give you the opportunity to think big in the way that we're talking about here right now, but

[00:23:10] Taylor Holiday: And then I think there's like this expertise around translation, which

[00:23:13] Richard Gaffin: mm-hmm.

[00:23:13] Taylor Holiday: Your big idea still needs to be translated into meta best practices and creative, right? Like it still

[00:23:18] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:23:19] Taylor Holiday: just 'cause you came up with the story, the campaign, the idea, and you've got a bunch of great raw underlying assets, there's still this execution of like, okay, how do we take that story? Turn it into a bunch of diverse assets. So volume still assets a ton of volume of high quality, diverse assets that are gonna drive better outcomes, leveraging the meta ad system or the YouTube ad system or whatever it might be. And so that still is an important functional role within the context. Or how could we even in the case of like our creator content program, take those briefs and.

Add to the library, how could we actually get more underlying creative assets that are the right kinds of creators with the right on message presentation to help support the breadth of story around what you're doing on the campaign level. So those are all things that as that idea becomes clearer for you, we can now translate that idea into volume.

We can go and make that happen, but.

[00:24:08] Richard Gaffin: Yeah. Makes sense. All right. Anything anything else you wanna hit on this?

[00:24:12] Taylor Holiday: Well, no, but Tanner, you gotta tell us. Now, did this help bring clarity to you, my friend?

[00:24:16] Richard Gaffin: Yeah.

[00:24:17] Taylor Holiday: I am making this piece of content just for you. So please let me know. Is that clear or do you feel less incongruence between the CTC client experience and my talk at Final Loop? Let

[00:24:28] Richard Gaffin: That's right. And anyone else who wants to hit us up and wants us to put this system in place for you, you know where to find us. Common thread code.com. Hit that hire us button. Let us know you wanna chat. We would love to talk. Alright folks, till next time. We will see you, we will give you another update on the coast of Mesa Yankees.

I know you all are dying to hear more about what happens there, but anyway, till next time folks. See ya.