Offer-Market Fit: Why 7-Figure Brands Hit a Wall

[00:00:00] Joy: this is the most exciting topic. We build a service around it. It's like the best s- this is the only service across all CDCV where we actually guarantee revenue now on it just because that's how, like that, that's why all these bold claims come from I know exactly what the problem is.

[00:00:12] This is the problem. That's why we guarantee revenue and all that stuff. But the idea of this is a lot of people come to us and when they're smaller we'll do stuff. Everyone does stuff, they become bigger, and then they keep doing the old stuff and they're like, "Now I'm not growing. So something is not working."

[00:00:27] And they will just go back and be like, "I did creatives, I launched more, and I'm still launching more, and I'm now not winning. Which whereas previously I made more creatives, I won." This is, this is a human habit, right? Which is like when people don't know exactly what's wrong, they will just look back at the intuition of I made more ads, I grew 100%, now I'm growing 10%, there's a problem.

[00:00:47] My creatives are bad.

[00:00:48] Richard: Hey, folks. Welcome to the Ecommerce Playbook podcast. I'm your host, Richard Gaffan, Director of Digital Product Strategy here at Common Thread Collective, and I'm joined today, as I have been over the last couple of months, at least once a month, by Mr. Joy Sharma, who is our heads up our formerly Global Accelerator, now Profit Engine seven program.

[00:01:06] The idea there, of course, is that Joy works with our mid to high seven-figure brands, growing them to the next plateau. And he's been coming on and dropping bombs with us on a monthly basis, and today is going to be no different because the topic that that we're talking through today I think is, is pretty exciting.

[00:01:22] Which is-- And so I'm gonna state your big claim back to you, Joy, and then you can kind of talk, break down a little bit about what you mean by it. So, the big claim here is that if, if you are stuck in growth and you haven't grown, even though you're doing all the right things like creative volume, your you know, your s- campaign structure built the right...

[00:01:40] Like, all that stuff is in place, then Joy's claim here, your claim, Joy, is that you can tell without looking at your business what is happening and what you need to do to change that. So you're stuck at that growth plateau. We have the answer. So I'll turn it over to you, Joy. What is the answer here?

[00:01:56] Joy: The answer is basically you don't have a offer market fit. That's like the reality of it. But it, it is much broader and this is like the, this is the most exciting topic. We build a service around it. It's like the best s- this is the only service across all CDCV where we actually guarantee revenue now on it just because that's how, like that, that's why all these bold claims come from I know exactly what the problem is.

[00:02:16] This is the problem. That's why we guarantee revenue and all that stuff. But the idea of this is a lot of people come to us and when they're smaller we'll do stuff. Everyone does stuff, they become bigger, and then they keep doing the old stuff and they're like, "Now I'm not growing. So something is not working."

[00:02:30] And they will just go back and be like, "I did creatives, I launched more, and I'm still launching more, and I'm now not winning. Which whereas previously I made more creatives, I won." This is, this is a human habit, right? Which is like when people don't know exactly what's wrong, they will just look back at the intuition of I made more ads, I grew 100%, now I'm growing 10%, there's a problem.

[00:02:50] My creatives are bad. There's a high chance they're not bad because they just worked and they grew you. It's the same thing with the ad account structure. When they stop growing people, the first thing they'll be like, "My ad account structure is bad. There, there's something change I, I, I'm not winning." And this is like funny to us because I can just go and look at people who are like 10 times bigger than whoever the client is and be like, "Yeah, but they have the same structure and they spend 10 times more money than you.

[00:03:11] I can promise you that's not the concern." This is why Applovin is such a good conversation and GPD ads and all that stuff. People usually go in these three different paths when they stop growing. They're like, "My creative's not working," or, "My ad account structure is wrong," or, "I need different platforms," so they open p- TikTok and Applovin and stuff like that.

[00:03:31] The reality of this is that you probably just don't have a offer market fit and people for some reason just can't understand this, and this is like the psyop that happens on Twitter all the time, which is everyone talks about creative all the time. And people- When businesses try to solve for a business problem with a marketing solution, that's where businesses go to die, and that's the reality.

[00:03:50] Because Twitter, I think we went from one extreme where nobody cared about creative to now we are at the oth- other extreme. People just can't take into account that you need to be in the middle. So that's, that's a human problem. So we have reached the extreme where they're like, "Everything is a creative problem," so that every- anything goes bad ever, they're like, "Make more ads."

[00:04:06] Like that-- Like there was a world in which nobody made ads, and now everyone is just, "Make more ads, that'll solve everything," which is like, it's just wrong. It's like you should not play the game that way. So we sit in a very privileged position where we understand how-- We have a data set that's bigger than basically anyone, and now we have Northbeam and all that stuff.

[00:04:25] So what happens is, and I want people to understand this, which is we are forgetting the game we are all playing, which is we are all playing in the sandbox of Facebook. That means when you were small and you were spending $500 a day, we're in an auction, you were competing against mom-and-pop businesses for the next grand in tranche and spend.

[00:04:43] They treat it as tranches and spend, basically. So when you spend that additional grand, like you're competing with mom-and-pop businesses. They don't understand their business as well. They're not sophisticated enough. So you can go and bid whatever you want. You can bid $30 and win, and who cares, right? You made more ads.

[00:04:57] That was the thing. Your bid was somewhat competitive against that competition. You made ads. You worked. Great. Move on. The issue is when you believe that now to go from two grand a day in spend to five grand a day in spend, you're just gonna continue to do that, and your competitors are gonna be the same people, which is not right.

[00:05:14] And that people just can't understand that, that that, that is what an auction means, which is when you spend more money, you play with more sophisticated players. That is the reality of the game. And people forget this for th- Like, and this is interesting to me, and it's like very fascinating to me, which is like when, whenever I talk to someone, they just, they're like, "Oh, I never thought of it."

[00:05:32] It's just like we all say Facebook is an auction, but like nobody thought of this. It's like, oh, that means there's more sophisticated people. And what does sophisticated mean? They have better margins. They have better merchandising. They have better conversion rate. They have things that are better that actually will help them to bid more And a really good example of this is, I was talking to a brand and they were in the jewelry space, and they were like, "Hey, I want to get more efficiency.

[00:05:58] I also want to spend more money. I believe our OS number," their whatever it was. Like, I don't think this is sophisticated. Like this is not high enough. I think we can improve it. I know people who get better OS, yada, yada, yada. I'm like, also like the, this is the issue with this, which is like humans lie all the time.

[00:06:12] They just do. So never trust anyone until you've seen their audited P&L. So they're like, "I have seen people spend more money than me and do it at a better efficiency." And when we open their industry averages in Statlas, their competitor had a CAC that was higher than their AOV. I'm like, "This, this is your industry average.

[00:06:29] These are the people you're playing against. They're spending the money you desire to, and they're bidding what your AOV is literally, meaning they're just bidding twice whatever you are." If you truly believe that your problem here is to make more ads and you will win, just not gonna happen. There, like there's nothing you're gonna do that's gonna help you go and win in that auction.

[00:06:48] And then you will just run in cycles. Is there any other platform? Can I make better ads? I need better cre- You can do whatever you want to. You're just not gonna win in that auction is the reality of it. And that is like, that is basically the statement. Like the problem is you just don't understand who you're competing with, and we have the data set.

[00:07:03] And when I look at it, I'm like, yeah, the problem is you don't have a offer market fit for that spend level, and it changes

[00:07:09] Richard: I see what you're saying. Yeah. So it's, it's, that's interesting. So like the idea then just to summarize a little bit is that when you reach a certain level of spend, you're spending against-- You're trying to win against people who can't afford to lose. They have enough money that they can lose at the auction all they want, or they can get these sort of exorbitant CACs or whatever because they can afford to run a break even, whatever the case may be.

[00:07:29] So it just ends up being like you're spending against people that have so many more resources than you do. So then what the solve is ends up being my sort of layman's interpretation, interpretation here is that it's conversion rate, right? Like is your-- Are your ads going to work by speaking to the people that they need to be speaking to?

[00:07:47] And I think your point about like at a certain tranche of spend, you need to change the offer because you've now exhausted... You know, we've, we've talked about, you know, Taylor's old analogy of like, the easiest person to sell to is your mom. The hardest person to sell to is somebody all the way across the world.

[00:08:00] As you expand your tranches of spend, you're starting to expand out into people who are less likely, let's say, to be your perfect customer. And so you need a different offer to connect with that sort of audience of, of person if, if that's-- Does that sound correct?

[00:08:15] Joy: It, it is directionally correct. It actually doesn't mean necessarily there are people who are going into the red. They just, they have just figured a way in which the customer journey actually makes them more money than you. Like, that is the game. They-- That comes

[00:08:27] from they have better margin, but also better merchandising.

[00:08:30] So for that brand, like playing hypotheticals, let's say I am a seven-figure brand and I'm spending $50 to acquire a customer and my AOV is $100. And I'm competing in my industry average, the CAC is 110. I just cannot spend the money my competitors spend who are eight figures. I just cannot. I can't afford to.

[00:08:50] I can go into the red and I still wouldn't be able to do that because they can extract more value because they have better bundles, they have better merchandising, they have more specific. Not only do they have better offers, they have a better way to communicate to the person. They have better margins.

[00:09:02] Everything is better there. But this is what growth is. Like Tara said this once, which was like, "What do you think growth is?" Growth is going into environments you've never been before with players who are better than you, and you win there. That is what growth is. So when we say, "I'm gonna grow the business," this is what growth is.

[00:09:18] You're gonna go and compete against those people. People, they need to understand that's what you're going against. Until people understand, "Oh, there's actually a player who's that sophisticated, and I need to go in that auction and beat him to get my growth," then, then they're like, "Oh, this is hard." It's supposed to be hard.

[00:09:34] That's how it's hard, actually.

[00:09:35] Richard: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So, so talk to me then about like, so what does that look like in, in the, in the real world to actually go into that space and win? What does that look like?

[00:09:45] Joy: So we shameless plug. So we do basically marketing moments for this to solve for this exact problem, and I think that's the best way to go and approach this problem. So the way we do this is, and we believe in this, which is if you have offer market fit, you can launch static images and win. And this is what will blow people's mind.

[00:10:04] If you have never been able to spend two grand a day, and I'm going and telling you, "Hey, I'm gonna go and find offer market fit, and I'm gonna get you to four grand a day in spend on images and give guarantee on that." They, they just can't even understand that. Like, how can that be true? Because I've been tested hundreds of videos here and it still is not working.

[00:10:19] And that's what I'm trying to tell them. It's like the foundation and the underpinning of that whole situation is actually that important. So what we do is, there are a few steps to it. So the first step is I will go and open your competition and look at what the AOV to CAC is. That's, that's the framework.

[00:10:32] So when we talk about unit economics in term-- like we internally talk about what are your unit economics, I'm saying this is what your industry's unit economics are. So I can look at the industry averages across the dataset. You can do it in Northbeam. There are multiple ways to do this, but basically I can see what the average AOV is in that industry and the average CAC is.

[00:10:48] That tells me what I'm competing against. A lot of times m- the CAC you're paying is probably very low compared to what the industry average is, and your AOV is also very low, which is actually a really good unlock. This happens in two ways. The first one is I go to people and like, "Charge more money." And founders are like, "I don't think I can do that.

[00:11:09] I don't want to do that." There are different reasons for that, but, but at the end of the day, there are other people who are charging more and have higher perceived value than you, and they're winning. So if you believe that you're just gonna keep your prices wherever it is, then we need to go and figure out a way to have a higher AOV.

[00:11:23] So we basically have that conversation, which is either charge more or make a better bundle, like add these free gifts in, increase prices. That's the exercise we do. So we take your basically inventory list of what is available and what the margins are on each product, and we build bundles most of the time.

[00:11:36] Customer journey to me is it starts with the product, something I know I can be competitive in the auction with. I don't need to be competitive with every single product. Like, that's just not gonna happen. I need to go and bundle my hero products and the things that have high margins in a way that I can afford the CAC and the AOV.

[00:11:50] This is special to us. Nobody else can look at this data. We can. So we can go and build you the wireframe of what the offer needs to be or what the unit economics of that needs to be. Then we create the offer, which is like I will add perceived value to it, which is like a lot of time people are like, "Buy two for this price," or, "Buy three."

[00:12:07] Like there, there are innovative ways to say it, which is like a dollar a day for a coffee pouch, which is like it's $30 a, a month you can save. Like you can play with that. You need to go and play that in that systematic manner, which is like if I do the first step, I know I can at least play the game. I have the table stakes to actually go and enter the game and play it when I have my AOV CAC.

[00:12:27] Then I have my offer, which is I have a good perceived value. And then I want you to stop right there, which is I want you to open your ad account and look at few metrics. I want you to look at CPM, then CTR, and then CPC. That is, that is the entire job of the creative here. So if your CPM is whatever it is and your CTR is ideally above 2%, that means your CPC is close to a dollar, you are probably good.

[00:12:50] Like you're not gonna go and improve it a lot. You will improve it somewhat, and your ceiling potential might be like 10, 20% improvement. But if you think that is going to go and make you win, they're probably not the reality. Then the other part I want you to look at is I want you to look at your AOV and your conversion rate.

[00:13:05] And I want you to go and like we do this on Statlas, we like-- I plot it. I think we talked about this on the last podcast where like there's the log line between AOV and conversion rate plotted there. A lot of times people are like 150% below the line.

[00:13:18] So that means you can make one change, and you can actually improve your whole auction system so much, and you will produce incredible value there.

[00:13:25] That's what I'm trying to do with the offer perceived value. So the way I know objectively that my offer has a high enough perceived value at that price is when I place it on the curve and I'm above the curve. So I will keep iterating that offer until I'm above that curve, and that's how I know people like the offer.

[00:13:42] That is the third

[00:13:43] Richard: re- real quick, let, let's jump in and, and explain again just for the audience that what the AOV versus CVR like log line is, like where you wanna land

[00:13:51] Joy: Yeah. It is, it is not linear. And what that basically tells you is if I'm selling a $40 product, a certain amount of people should buy from me, and that you can look at the industry average. For example, people say these arbitrary numbers. They're like, "$100 AOV is the best AOV, 2% c-conversion rate is what you should aim for."

[00:14:08] The answer is you shouldn't. You should aim for a conversion rate that's specific to the products you are selling. If I'm selling a $1,000 product, I don't need a 2% conversion rate. Like, I, I will do nothing with it. And nobody's gonna go and buy that. And on the other extreme of this is... And this is basically where arbitrage happens on the extremes of everything, which is if you have a $40 product, you should have probably a 6% conversion rate.

[00:14:29] Like 2% is easy. $40 is an impulse buy to people, and they will just buy it at night, to be fair. Like, the, the lower you go, the higher the conversion needs to be, and the higher your AOV is, the lower the conversion rate can be. And your job is to find what the sweet spot is for your brand depending on your unit economics and your product and your merchandising available.

[00:14:47] So I can tell you-- Now there's a, there's another factor and another theory that plays with this, and when you give people two theories and you ask them to overlap, everyone's brain is like, "Okay, I'm done." But the reality is you need to take that theory and then overlay the theory that there's actually a, a cost that your customer, your competitor is trying to pay.

[00:15:06] Which is if I have a $40 AOV and I have a, I have a 7% conversion rate, the industry average is 6%. But if my competition is paying $70 in CAC, I just would not win. So there are parts of that AOV versus log comp that you are actually not allowed to enter because you just can't win. You can have above average AOV versus conversion rate relationship and still lose.

[00:15:28] So that is the thing. We find the sweet spot between this is the AOV that you need to bid in between just because of the auction, and then in between this, you need to be above a certain conversion rate, and that's where the perceived value of the offer comes from. So you keep improving the conversion rate.

[00:15:42] You keep improving the offer until you get the conversion rate. is it. That's the theory.

[00:15:47] Richard: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I-- so on, on that point then at the end then, like, so you, you mentioned sort of like solving for that sweet spot is, is in essence solving for the customer journey. So you mentioned obviously like part of that is offer testing. So talk to me about like what that looks like on a daily basis.

[00:16:02] Like how, how is... what's the cadence of launching new offers? How are you like thinking through that? And then the, the piece about building out a more robust customer journey, which would include things like, I don't know, growing LTV or having sort of an upsell/downsell thing to grow AOV or whatever. Like how do you think about solving for those things as well?

[00:16:19] Joy: So I combine them together, and this is the good thing, which is if I've done the first step, which is I know where I need to be in the AOV versus conversion rate, that applies to Evergreen also. So that means I don't need to actually test it in Evergreen. I can just test it in a marketing moment. That's why we call, like when we do this as a service, we just call it marketing moments, which is I will do the first step and the second step, which is I understand the offer now, I understand the AOV, I understand the CAC I need to pay.

[00:16:40] Now I'm gonna put this into a marketing moment. So the customer journey, if I want to go and figure out, let's say fathers, right? Then I will go and take the offer, talk about fathers in a way there is a cultural moment coming, which is Father's Day, if I want to talk about that. Or like I will find something is happening.

[00:16:56] Every month, every day there's something happening in America. So I will go and basically find their reasoning or s- find something, build that into the landing page, and then in the landing page, talk about that persona, about that cultural moment, build the offer. The offer could be... The offer doesn't necessarily need to be a huge thing.

[00:17:13] If you sell T-shirts and hats, like you can even build it there. Which is, let's say your general, and this is actually an important thing to remember, which is when you're a seven-figure business, you will just run ads to the homepage. It's like, "I sell T-shirts. You can buy a T-shirt for $50 or $70." Then you go and open the barrel industry and you're like, "Oh, the AOV is h- $250.

[00:17:30] No wonder I'm losing." People can have the same ROAS and they're, like their 2X on $250 is still $125 in CAC.

[00:17:38] I just can't win in that auction. So that's why it becomes, okay, now can I go and build a Father's Day offer where it talks about Father's Day? I will take the products that are specific to that father, which is like fathers can be in different categories, blue collar workers veterans or stuff like that.

[00:17:51] Take that specific cohort of stuff I have available, build it into a collection for just that kind of person, talk about fathers. And then also add an offer which is you can only buy it in sets of two, which is I actually lose money when I sell one, so you can... I just wouldn't allow you to buy one. That's it.

[00:18:08] Like, you can only buy sets of two. And to appreciate you buying two, I will give you a free hat just for this time period. Now, this is my, my Father's Day offer, let's say. And if it works, if I get a conversion versus AOV that's above industry average, so I satisfy my law curve, and I also satisfy my market CAC, which is the market is paying $100, I can afford $110 on this.

[00:18:29] This is it. I found the next tranche of spend. I found the next winner. I will now graduate it into Evergreen. So I will Evergreen now run that as an ad. I don't need to talk about the Father's Day. I can still talk about just that persona of veterans or whatever it was, or blue collar workers. That's a funnel that will now go and spend a grand or two additional until you max out that CAC.

[00:18:50] And then your job is to go and find another one and another one, and you keep doing that. The funniest thing is I can-- If I do the first two steps right, I don't even need videos for this. This is the reality of it. When we do marketing moments, we only do statics. And it, it blows people's mind. It's like, "I have been testing creatives for the longest time.

[00:19:08] I can't spend more money." Because you were just not gonna even enter the auction. And now I just have a... This is, this is important. When you have offer market fit- Statics will work.

[00:19:19] Richard: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:19] Joy: what people try to do is they don't have any product market fit or offer market fit for that spend level, and they just try to spam creatives on it, and they try to make the thing work, and the reality is it's just not gonna work.

[00:19:29] And also, when you have something that works, it will work on statics, and when you launch videos at it, you're just gonna go, like you're gonna hammer it. You're gonna scale so fast. Creative strategy and creative production should be a volume mechanism. It should not be a efficiency mechanism. Efficiency and target unit economics is a business problem that should be solved from a offer market fit and a product market fit.

[00:19:51] We have all been taught this in, like unis and in marketing and business degrees. Like, this has been taught for the longest time. People just don't do it for some reason in e-com.

[00:19:59] Richard: Yeah. Well, it's, it's-- Yeah, I think if people get in the mindset of, like, because it's e-commerce and because Meta has this black box algorithm, it's like if we press the right secret buttons or whatever, or we do this sort of new hack that we're seeing on, on X, then we're going to break through to the next level.

[00:20:12] And it's not something-- It can't possibly be something as simple as just doing a new offer or giving people something that they want, you know? So I think one interesting point that you mentioned is, like, creative strategy in the sense of, like, building out, like, a wide range of, a volume of creatively diverse assets or whatever.

[00:20:28] So you're saying the point is you find the offer that works, let's say, with statics, which is the easiest lift creative, and then hammer that specific offer that's working and expand the volume with that range of, of creative, right?

[00:20:42] Joy: Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's this idea about hit rate. So when you're not winning, I've seen that your hit rate goes to 2%, which is for every 100 ads you launch, two of them will work. And what I'm saying is when I have a offer that works, I can take a white blank image, put a product image on it, and have the offer slapped on it, and it will work.

[00:21:01] It will work better than all the $100 videos you made. In that instance, now making ads for that offer, you're just gonna love making creatives there because everything is gonna work. Because it worked on images. You had a offer market fit. Now to scale it to people, you can make videos on it, and your hit rate on average will probably go to, like, 7%.

[00:21:20] Like, you know who, who has the actually the best hit rate? The people who just out-compete everyone in the auction. Because it's not even about the creative at a certain point. Like, if I'm willing to pay $100, I can have a meme joke of an ad, and I will out-compete everyone who's paying $50 in CAC. It wouldn't even matter, and that is actually the important part people don't understand about creative strategies.

[00:21:42] Like, if you choose to lose and you don't win in creative strategy, it might not be about the creative strategist to begin with. You're just not competitive to even enter the auction

[00:21:51] Richard: Yeah. It's interesting. So, so you're saying that like the people who can win at $100 CAC or whatever, so if you have the sort of like merchandising piece done so you can, you can get margin on $100 CAC, let's say, you can afford to spend more, then you can crank out... Well, so in that case then if you do the sort of like a meme ad or whatever, it can't just be anything, right?

[00:22:11] It has to be like a working offer, which presumably is something that you've already figured out to even get to the point where you can afford that. But the, the point being it doesn't have to be some sort of like complex set of creatives. It could just be like we were mentioning, I think, on one call before, like writing down something on a Post-it note and putting it on a whatever.

[00:22:28] Like it can be as simple as that, as long as the offer's something people want. Yeah.

[00:22:32] Joy: Yeah. This is like, this is the-- It is the sequence that matters. You need to have a product market fit, then you need to have an offer market fit, then you need to do creative strategy. People just forget the first two steps, they get to the second one, and Facebook is truly a magical place in the sense that you can, you can h- you can choose to skip the first two steps, do a bunch of ads, and you will still spend a grand or two.

[00:22:55] It will still find people who are worse than you, and you will out-compete them. But y- but never forget that you will never beat the people who are more sophisticated than you in the auction, and that is where scale comes from. And that's why those people actually plateau. A lot of seven-figure businesses never reach ten grand a day in spend just because, like, that's the general number I would say.

[00:23:16] Like at-- Anyone who wants to try to spend ten grand a day, you need to have an offer market fit, you need to have a product market fit, and people don't get there because they don't have those. And this is actually, we give this as advice, and I think I would be, like, people can come and ask us and DM me or join admission or however they want to get access to it.

[00:23:33] But that access to the data set is very important for this because if I told you make a landing page and an offer, you don't actually know what your AOV needs to be. That wireframing of the unit economics of what the market is paying for it in a CAC value and what the AOV is, is actually the most important aspect of this.

[00:23:51] Because you will just make a random bundle of whatever you feel is good.

[00:23:56] Richard: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:57] Joy: And that is actually the biggest impact. Like, if you make a landing page and you make a bundle and you test it on $90 AOV and the market AOV is one hundred and fifty, you still didn't win

[00:24:07] Richard: Yeah. So it gives you a clear understanding of like what, like a solid understanding of what the goal has to be or what combination, like you were saying, combination of AOV and CVR is something you'll need to hit in order to beat the field and, and compete at that level, right? Yeah, so I think like the, the important point to call out here that I feel is this idea that finding offer market fit, I feel like there's probably a situation where a lot of people are like, "Well, we already did that.

[00:24:30] We already have offer market fit and product market fit because it's been working up to this point, but now it's stopped." And so people then forget about the fact that, oh, if it's stopped, it means you actually have to go back to the drawing board and find offer market fit again because what's happened is you're tapping into a new market.

[00:24:45] Even though it may be people who are like similar to your current market, it's like there, there's something about them that's far enough out that they're going to need to be spoken to or need to be offered in a different way in order to actually get what you need to get out of it, right?

[00:24:57] Joy: Exactly. Take any product and play sophistication out, you, you will understand. Like if I, for example, I'm selling shoes, right? If I was selling shoes and I spent $10 a day, I'm probably competing with like the, my local shoemaker who probably has worse margin than me because I'm drop sh- drop shipping it from China.

[00:25:14] But now if I try to spend $10,000 a day, I'm competing against Nike. They don't even care about making money in the first year, and they probably have a higher price, right? So that's the difference. Like you, just because you won at $100 a day doesn't mean you had offer market fit. It just mean they were worse

[00:25:29] players.

[00:25:29] Richard: yeah. Okay, that's a really, that's a really good point. That's like, like you were saying before actually, right, like people may be skipping that altogether because there's something about Facebook, like you were saying, it's like a magical tool that can, that can find people who will buy if you're competing against people who really don't know what they're doing.

[00:25:45] So okay. So ta- talk to us a little bit about you had mentioned before, sort of our Marketing Moments offering, which is something that we're offering right now. Talk us a little bit through the process of, of what we do with that product specifically.

[00:25:56] Joy: This is like, this is, this is the most interesting offer I've ever made. This has to be the most valuable thing. Like, I'm so hyped about this because this is the first thing that I know we produce so much impact on that we'll just go and guarantee the revenue. So like whatever you pay us for the service, I will guarantee you will make it back in the small few days that we choose to do it.

[00:26:17] And the process of that is very simple. It's like the first process is we'll use our dataset to give you the wireframe of the AOV and the CAC. That would be step number one. We need to play on this AOV and this CAC. I need to be able to afford it, so we'll take your unit economics, we'll plan that out.

[00:26:30] Then the second step is now I have an approximation of what the conversion rate versus AOV needs to be on that AOV. So I'll make an offer with the perceived value that I believe will be close to it and we'll make redundancies. So if I was wrong, which I might be wrong, I will go and swap it out and do the other one, and that will win.

[00:26:45] So basically, we have some iterations of it, and we basically do two marketing moments a month to ensure that we can have winners. So that's the second thing I will do. Once I have my offer in place, I have my unit economics in place, I have the overall framework of the offer in place, then we will make some really good converting landing pages.

[00:27:01] End of the day, making an advertorial or a certain type of landing page, adding-- Like there's some optimizations you can do from a landing page design of sending a direct to cart, not like skipping, like removing steps. The job of having a higher conversion rate is basically removing friction. So if I can make a landing page that is more frictionless, I will improve conversion rate a little bit to a certain degree.

[00:27:20] So we'll basically do the basic landing page designs. Whatever is working well, we'll take that. Then we will take all of that and we'll encompass that into a marketing moment like f- like Father's Day or something, something that you're not already doing. I'm not trying to take anyone's money, so we want it to be incremental additional revenue, so we'll produce something new.

[00:27:38] And we'll make it unlisted on your website, so people don't need to know who don't see that. The only reason I'm doing a marketing moment and I'm not doing it evergreen is just because I want to ensure you don't lose a single dollar. If I do it in a marketing moment, you don't lose a single dollar. In evergreen, you might lose some money because there's a 50/50 chance it works.

[00:27:54] That's what a test is. I don't want to take that chance. Like I'm fine running it in under a marketing moment, and if it wins, I will graduate into evergreen. That's the next step. And then we make ads for you. We make statics for you and the, and they will win. That's the reality. If we do the first few steps properly, statics will win.

[00:28:12] And the end result of that is we run it, we produce, produce incremental revenue on it. And as it wins, you can graduate out into evergreen and you can make your evergreen ads on it. And they will all, all of a sudden, the same creative strategies, the same strategy, the same ads that were not warning-- were not working previously, will start working because you can now enter the auctions adequately.

[00:28:33] Richard: Yeah. No, that's, that's great. So like, I mean, p- part of what we're saying here is that, like, this Marketing Moments offering is we'll construct for you the thing that we just talked about. Like, there's a specific problem, there's a specific solution, and we can come alongside you and build that with you because of our access to the data set and obviously the, the v- volume of clients we've seen this work with and done with, with before.

[00:28:52] So, then for this actually, so one other thing, like who-- so who's this Marketing Moments package for?

[00:28:59] Joy: It, it is basically for everyone, but it's actually for the people who have actually went through the stages. They were growing, they stopped growing, and they thought the answer was the ad account, so they changed their ad account. They didn't find anything. They tried using different creative services, resources that didn't work, and they probably tried another platform like TikTok and it didn't work.

[00:29:19] If you've been through all of that, then there's a high chance you're actually in this plateau of growth and this is the solve to you

[00:29:26] Richard: Yeah. Right. Okay, so that, that makes sense. Let's, like, we'll, we'll frame it as if you are in this situation that we're talking about here, which is you've seen meaningful growth in the past, you've actually gotten to a place where you felt like things were working. Now you've plateaued, and you can't figure out why, and you're doing all of these tweaks you know, switching up like, "Oh, I'm doing highest volume now," whatever, perish the thought.

[00:29:45] Like, don't do that. But y- you're t- you're taking all of these steps to fix that, and it's not working, then this is for you. So I- I'll say, like, if, if this is something you're interested in, you wanna work with us on it commonthreadco.com, hit the Hire Us button, let us know you're interested in Marketing Moments.

[00:29:59] And we would love to put Joy on the case figuring out how to break through this for your growth. So, Joy, any, any last thoughts that you wanna share with us here?

[00:30:08] Joy: This is it. This is the biggest unlock for every seven-figure business. Like, this is it. People need to use the strategic framework to find where they're losing and not randomly say it's, it's something

[00:30:19] Richard: That's right. All right, folks. Well, you heard it there first. This is the big claim. This is the unlock. If you are in this situation, we know how to fix this to you for you, and we can guarantee it as well. So, all right we're gonna cut it there. Everybody, appreciate you listening. Joy, thank you for joining us, and we'll see you all next time.

[00:30:34] Take care.